Posted May 3rd, 2011 by Christopher in News | Comments Off
So… it’s not MicroMesh. It’s far too thin (~0.2mm, as oposed to the original 1.2ish mm). However… MM 4000 and MM 6000 both feel a lot like the original pads. Therefore, the original pads’ abrasive is roughly between 4 and 5 micron. Let’s say 5 micron.
PSA = Pressure Sensitive Adhesive. Eg. 300 LSE ) Doubtful, but, the fact 3M make an adhesive backed abrasive looks promising. My guess is it’s still a standard 3M product, just gotta figure out which one. Now we know the grade, shouldn’t be too hard. If anyone wants to try the above, it’s all of £2.90, plus shipping. Think it’ll be reallly thin though. So… anyone know of a 1mm fibre backed 5 micron abrasive sheet?
Random thought: Used pad actually feels like rubber (slightly abrasive), then felt (or wool). Who the hell makes felt backed rubber pads that can be used as an abrasive, and possibly come pre-backed with 3M adhesive?
Posted April 27th, 2011 by Christopher in News | Comments Off
Can’t find some 3M 300LSE Adhesive down your local B&Q? Still need something to stick that as-yet-unknown product (could they even be Buehler pads?) to your old Disc Go Devil pads? Well, fear not.
300LSE is commonly used as the adhesive for that ever so omnipresent a product, the iphone. And there’s no shortage of eBayers selling handy iPhone sized strips of the stuff.
Easily enough for application to 20 pads (10 pairs), or at a very tight squeeze, possibly 45 pads (may just fit 3 in a row, and 1.5 across). Just make sure you don’t buy a strip with the centre taken out, as that’s the important bit. Hell, buy the strip, remove the centre for use, and sell/use the excess as the original product for an iphone :p .
Note there’s a number of sellers also shipping 3M 200MP tape, but I doubt there’s much difference during use.
Producers of the Suoya SY-4 (aka. SY-4, yeah, idiot ). Model-6510 (aka. Compact), Model-6520 (Compact Plus?), Model-6620 (aka. Redisc), and plenty other bits n bobs.
Re-sold in Canada by Disc-Go-Tech, the UK by Total Disc Repair, Italy by ELM-Digitalia, and a few other places here n there. That said, Suoya’s pads n paste n application methods look just slightly different, so either they’ve got very out of date pics, or DGT / TDR have adapted a few things. Specifically, the abbrasive pad section of the Compact’s pads have an *identicle* material to that of the Disc Go Devil. So, either the Devil (or at least it’s pads) are made by Suoya, or DGT / TDR / whoever are making their own pads, and maybe their own polish too. We’ll see…
Back to those patents: here’s Suoya’s disc repair based one. Nothing too interesting, and quite a way from an end product, but their website does suggest their pads / polish are designed to remove 0.0003mm/5Mins (3 microns). Which isn’t much at all. However… Blu-Ray’s protective layer is somewhere between 30 microns and 100 microns. And TDR suggest Blu-Ray’s can be repaired “up to 10 times” by the DGD / Compact. 10 x 3 micron = 30 micron… hmmm ) So what size AO is required to remove 3 microns over 5 minutes whils also using abrasive pads of an us yet undetermined micron particle size? So close yet so far.
And I’ll leave you with some lulz for the day. Here’s what everyone’s favourite disc repair machine OEM does in their spare time. There’s so much wrong with this image I can’t even begin to explain… but yes, IE, you’re a common disease… trolololo…
As for the Disc Go Devil pump, same as the ones on the RTI / ELM eco series:
Anyone got a name for those things?
Oh yes, google strikes. Actually, they just had the model number written on the things. As ever.
Welco WP1000 peristaltic (wha?) pump. Comes in various setups, as detailed in this handy categorize-it-yourself PDF. Apparently they’re decent Japanese made pumps, very highly regarded in the reef aquarium community. Sadly, they’re also quite pricey, and only generally available in bulk quantities. For the business man in you, WP-1000s start at ~$100 USD, 50 MOQ. Price break >50 @ ~$62 (which doesn’t make much sense with moq @ 50, but anyway). Orders (and samples ) available through Ms. Watanabe – naoko.watanabe@welco-web.co.jp , or welco.net.
TDR will no doubt sell them too, my guess @ ~£60 to £100, which is probably pretty good considering. Starting to see why these machines cost so much. £10 worth of sticky tape, £50 worth of pump, tomorrow we’ll see how much the motor costs. This place is turning in to freakin’ iSuppli… Meh, forget tomorrow.
Disc Go Devil motor = Honline Induction Motor 82 Series – exact specs, who knows. Model number on mine is HLC3582URB002 – 230v, 50Hz, 3uF. Looks like the C8240B-2302A or C8240B-2304A. Here they are, the Honline crew, slaving away, possibly literally.
Funnily enough, they also make Peristaltic Pumps. Only $26 USD. They most likely suck. But at least we all have a new word-of-the-day. Peristaltic. Read it n learn, bitches. Anyway, I’m of to watch the brand new will-it-ever-end series of Two Pints. While the internet crashes n burns. Good day all.
Yup, another 3M product. Wouldn’t surprise me if those elusive abrasive pads were also a 3M product, however I’m still convince MicroMesh will provide just as good if not better a surface. Likewise, I’m guessing any old double-sided tape will be good enough.
Posted April 24th, 2011 by Christopher in News | 1 Comment »
Good job all these companies aren’t in the security business. They’d be fucked. Although in their defense, most of this info comes from re-sellers. Who most likely just looked at the back of their RTI pads, and found this:
That’ll be RTI’s “Blue” pad for the ECO series then. Another 3M paper, P800 grit, is the Tl21 relevant? I don’t think it refers to Thallium anyways. Background:
RTI use multiple pads in their machines, not just the one type.
Black = Clean /Polish
Yellow = Very Light
Green = Light
Red = Medium
Blue = Deep = P800
Purple = Blu-Ray
Clean /Polish = P2400 ??
Very Light = P2000 ??
Light = P1600 ??
Medium = P1200
Deep = P800
Blu-Ray = ??? (May be softer due to thinner poly layer, or harder due to, well, harder poly layer).
And some education in grit levels, cos some idiods *cough*americans*cough* came up with differing standards.
http://www.metalclayuk.co.uk/asp/MicronsGrits.asp
1200 Grit (no prefix) = CAMI standard = ~7 Micron = JFJ’s “Soft”.
P1200 = FEPA standard = ~15 micron = RTI’s “Medium”
JFJ’s sanding route:
Coarse (use for ~20 sec) = 600 CAMI = 3M 431Q 600 Wetordry, made from Silicon Carbide = 16 micron.
Soft (use ~ 20 sec) = 1200 CAMI = 3M 401Q 1200 Wetordry, made from Silicon Carbide = 6.5 micron.
Which suggests Their light & polish pads are actually even lighter (clean = P3000 ?, very light = P2400?) Which would put them out of the reach of most 3M products, which would explain why no one’s selling alternatives as you’d have to start using something like MicroMesh instead of 3M paper. FWIW, the more available MicroMesh REGULAR is made from, you guessed it, silicon carbide. Slightly rarer MicroMesh AO is, not surprisingly, Aluminium Oxide based. My guess on DGD’s covering – MicroMesh Regular 6000 4 micron or 4000 5 micron. Oi, MM, wanna send a sample pack over for evaluation / review? Maybe? No? eBay it is then…
Posted April 23rd, 2011 by Christopher in News | Comments Off
I feel more like Boycie every day. Take that, £40 powders & sandpaper, I got ya alll figured out.
And I’m not alone.
http://www.discmagic.net
http://umdcase.com
At least one of those guys has a “background in microabrasion”. I knew the IT degree would be pointless… So, let’s raid some more info from the web shall we?
“1200 Grit” “Sandpaper” pad. Well, I wish it’d just been written on the side of my pads, would’ve saved me weeks of research. Oh and would you look at that…
“Polishing Compound for Disc-Go Tech”. Sadly, they’re staying quiet on the actual content front. So I still got plenty of work to do. Unless they ship overseas…
Other thoughts: Standard available Microdermabrasion Al2O3 is 100 micron sized. That explains the sinking in the water then.
Oh gawd…
Just gonna sit there and taunt me, aren’t ya? Still, maybe, just maybe, the DGT stuff is different enough to give just *something* left to do for the holidays. Unless they have it written all over their rear’s too. Oh and, FWIW, JFJ’s ones have sticky tape pre-applied to the rear. But I might still stick with the MicroMesh stuff and my blue peter style sticky-back-plastic, cos I’m a quality freak see.
Ehehehehe… 3M… fools… There’s that boycie laugh again £2.50 bags enough to re-cover… maybe 4 DGD pads? Ehehehehehehe.
4 litres polish, £240 + VAT shipped. Although it does include pads, cloths and wax spray. And doesn’t cause the closure of a small neighbourhood and a visit from the local Hazmat team should a tiny amount leak in the post sorting office.
Alternatively, 5kg of 12 micron Al2O3 about £80, I recon would make ~35 litres. Just depends how clever I am with the other bits n bobs. Seriously, is the nonahydrate relevant? I feel like the guy on the advert with the squirrel. And that’s never relevant. Might be an anti static measure. The nitrate, not the squirrel.
EDIT: I take it back – 1200 grit (9 micron) should be used no longer than 20 seconds, according to JFJ’s manual. Which puts the DGD pads much finer. MicroMesh 3200 = 1200 grit = 9 micron. MM 8000 = 3 micron = “feels like silk”, hmmm, familiar…. How relevant that is to the Al2O3 particles size, I dunno. I’m still going for ~10 micron, it’s not like it’s being pushed against anything much.
Posted April 21st, 2011 by Christopher in News | Comments Off
More thoughts on the wonderful world of backwards-engineering someone else’s disc repair machine…
VENMILL:
Originally uses 155mm x 10mm, 30 ply Muslin Buffing Wheels, stiched twice (though 3 or 4 rows won’t change anything).
Wheels are soaked for 10 seconds each in an ever decreasing concentration of anti-static liquid (specifics, and how much any of this is required, tbc).
A standard cotton wheel is a little soft compared directly, though I’m yet to try one out to see if there’s a practical difference. And the 150mm standard may or may not work if the motor height is adjusted in the 3500. And they’re never gonna come with a central hole that fits the 3500′s motor, but that shouldn’t be hard to fix. Not for about £10 for a set of 3 anyway
DISC GO TECH:
Still don’t know what the Nonahydrate’s for.
Al2O3 needs to be very fine (possibly ~25 micron particle size) to mix with water. Bigger stuff sinks to the bottom & stays there. How small it can get and still be effective as a grinding agent is another tbc. One way to find out for sure: Filter the original liquid through ever decreasing micron sized water filters. Can’t be bothered myself :p
Buffing pads may or may not actually be ~2000+ grit sand paper. Possibly abrasive cloth. Possibly just cloth (shammy leather etc). [See page 7 line 35 here]. Deffinately feels like sand paper on a new set though, not so much on a used one. Need to find a materials specialist
UPDATE: Could it be MicroMesh? £8 gets a variety trial pack to find out
Actually… MicroMesh’s Micro Gloss Finishing Liquid – Water, plus a 1 (or 9) micron abrasive particle, specifically for use in the polishing of polycarbonate. Sound familiar? Hmmm indeed. Especially at 50% of the price of another water + abrasive-particle-of-elusive-size polycarbonate polish mixture Even better, they’re a company who may be very happy to answer a few basic questions on their products :d
UPDATE 2: Oookk… MicroMesh polishing fluid Type 2, suitable for up to 9 micron deep scratches, includes 5 micron particle sized Al2O3. Soo…
Disc Go Tech’s polish attempts to remove a 20 micron scratch. Which would be… at a guess… 10 – 15 micron particle size? Say… 12 Micron? Sounds right to me. Just gotta figure out if this polishing pad is actually abrasive or not… And get some samples of 12 micron Al2O3 somewhere…
Posted April 16th, 2011 by Christopher in News | Comments Off
US Patent 7357696: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7357696.html
Disc Go Tech’s primary disc repair patent; covers the same process employed by most of their machines (pod/compact/devil/solo/roberto), alas not quite so many details on actual component materials.
And then que the sue. Patent wars, round 1, ding ding, etc etc.
“RTI has committed, and continues to commit, contributory infringement of the ‘524 patent, both literally and under the doctrine of equivalents, by offering to sell, selling or importing into the United States one or more apparatuses, including the ECO-Super, for use in practicing at least claim 1 of the ‘524 patent, both literally and under the doctrine of equivalents, knowing the apparatus to be especially made for use in an infringement of the ‘524 patent and without a substantial non-infringing use.”
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: The above is currently only claimed by Disc Go Tech in an ongoing patent dispute. Actual patent infringement may or may not actually exist, and this author has no frickin clue whatsoever. About anything. Except this:
May shut up a few people who constantly claim RTI’s machines are better than Disc Go Techs Not that I have experience with RTI machines. Other than, well… they all looka bit similar.
That and, I’m never gonna be a huge fan of any company trying to charge £1500 for a product that’s no more than a MicroATX board, SFF case, couple DVD drives, 15″ LCD and a custom Linux distro that does nothing but run read-error tests. Hell, I could sell one of them for £200 and still be quids in. And it’d actually play video games too. Still, GameStation fell for it. Mehehehe…
EDIT:Patent PDF – Appendix, page 8 (2nd from last page in document) – “[0348] DVD=Digital Video Disk” Hehehe silly americans :p
EDIT 2: Bundle in some standard anti-static cleaning fluid, 4 x 100ml bottles, and charge £120 ex VAT a pack for it. Standard retail cost: ~£8.58 ex VAT for 400ml (albeit sold in bottles of 250ml each). Ok ok, there’s a few fluffy wheel bits in there too… Obviously, they clearly cost ~£110 to make. Apparently. Unless someone, somewhere, can find an equivalent cheaper? Mmmm… maybe tomorrow
Edit 3: I’m well on my way to re-creating some £44.00 al-oxide polishing paste, so lets handle these £120.00 buffing wheels shall we?
“Also comprising of a front shaft portion 216 , which 3 buffing pads are slid on to 220 , 221 , 222 . The 3 pads are evenly spaced by two rubber spacers ⅜ of an inch thick and two-inch diameter 225 . The pads and spacers are held in place by knob (not shown). ”
“Each pad comprises muslin with 15 layers, chemically treated with Anti-static conditioner coolant” – That’s Venmill’s standard AC Liquid, see above.
“Pad 220 [the rear blue pad] is a normal concentration of AC liquid coolant 340 that has been approximately dipped in coolant for ten seconds, buffing pads are then spun at 5000 RPM then cut and raked and dried to 5 ½ inches in diameter [actually, they're around 15 - 16cm diameter, closer to a standard 6 inch wheel]. Buffing Pad 221 [middle red pad] has 50% more concentration of AC Liquid coolant 340 and prepared and finished in the same manner as Buffing Pad 220 . Buffing Pad 222 [front yellow pad] has been treated with double or 100% more concentration of AC Liquid coolant 340 , and has been prepared and finished in the same manner as Buffing Pads 220 , and 221 . ”
“The specific differences in concentrations in Pad group 320 are again to maintain an even control of surface temperature in the distinctive surface areas between the small interior surface area to the largest exterior optical surface area of the CD Media 231 . The coolant 340 dissipates with the mechanical friction of Pad Group 320 against the CD Media 231 leaving no residual on the surface of the CD Media 231 . ”
Off on a tangent…
“Build up of residual residue of Coolant 340 is apparent after ten to twenty operations on Pad Group 320 . In order to maintain peak performance of Pad Group 320 the residual is raked off by running a CD cleaner Disc in place of the CD Media 231 . This Cleaner Disc can be run through a 30 second or one minute cycle and has 60 raking teeth, which operate much like a cheese grater. This allows the residual to be detached from Pad Group 320 leaving the Buffing Pads in an original, high performance condition.” – so, it’s not *really* gonna wear down the pads, and really should be used every 20 or so discs. That’ll be why mine are already black n dirty then :p
And VenMill_v10.LST for some programming gotos. Love the GOTOs. Why can’t every language have them
Difference? Mmm… not entirely sure, but looks very similar. Same diameter. Same depth. Dip em in some £8 ac liquid. Oh and… £4.99 each. That’s… erm… about £20 for a £120 product. *g*. Just gotta figure out the specifics…
) Doubtful, but, the fact 3M make an adhesive backed abrasive looks promising. My guess is it’s still a standard 3M product, just gotta figure out which one. Now we know the grade, shouldn’t be too hard. If anyone wants to try the above, it’s all of £2.90, plus shipping. Think it’ll be reallly thin though. So… anyone know of a 1mm fibre backed 5 micron abrasive sheet?
). Model-6510 (aka. Compact), Model-6520 (Compact Plus?), Model-6620 (aka. Redisc), and plenty other bits n bobs. 
) available through Ms. Watanabe – naoko.watanabe@welco-web.co.jp , or welco.net.
£2.50 
